N.U.T. (NES Unification Team)

[Nynx]

Feb 12, 2010 1:44:23 GMT -5 The Master said:

I believe in the fundamental principles of the freedoms of speech and opinion. This initiative will scar, restrict and monitor, maybe even abolish those freedoms. As such I can not and will not support it.
The fact of it is if you dint like what someone is saying dint listen, this is bordering on totalitarianism and gives an unfair amount of pressure to conform to what others think is appropriate, there by loosing your own voice. As it is now this team isn't a big deal, but it can and most likely will grow into a huge problem to the point where people can no longer voice their concerns for fear of it conflicting with another and the resulting retaliation.

Man..... We are spiritual twins indeed. I was thinking the same way.

[The Master]

Bawb, thats why, for now, I am not directly opposing this. Im neutral for now. I will also ignore any orders given to me by this team, as long as they leave me alone and keep it in check everything will be fine.

Star, I feel that I have to voice the opposition because no-one else wants to, if this thing goes to far, even by a little I WILL FIGHT it. And when I really fight, nothing is left standing.

[Angel]

Feb 12, 2010 1:44:23 GMT -5 The Master said:

I believe in the fundamental principles of the freedoms of speech and opinion. This initiative will scar, restrict and monitor, maybe even abolish those freedoms. As such I can not and will not support it.
The fact of it is if you dint like what someone is saying dint listen, this is bordering on totalitarianism and gives an unfair amount of pressure to conform to what others think is appropriate, there by loosing your own voice. As it is now this team isn't a big deal, but it can and most likely will grow into a huge problem to the point where people can no longer voice their concerns for fear of it conflicting with another and the resulting retaliation.

There is freedom of speech and there is just plain unnecessary comments though. If you have a problem with someone, it doesn't need to be shouted on the c-box for everyone to become all dramatic about. Things can be done other ways, through PM's, through AIM, through all sorts of ways.

Angel mostly just feels that our level of trolling, sexual/graphic discussion and lack of care for censor dodging and other forms of crude behavior is unnecessary. Very much so, to the point where our site is controlled and overrun with it and it gives us a very bad image. I feel like you can express your feelings about something, someone or a situation in better words. It's not about giving up your freedom of speech, it's just about changing the method in which you give that speech to others.

All around, I believe that we can have conversations that have the same meaning and the same things are said without the M-rating.

[Nynx]

I understand Atrum.. I was a little edgy about the idea myself but i didn't see the need to strike it down yet. I want whats best for the site too but I will not like some rule prevent me from being myself. Toning down things is fine to a point but trying to abolish them will make me draw my sword.

[The Master]

Angel, what is unnecessary for YOU isn't to another. If that person feels that is the only way that they will be listened to, and on this site that is sometimes true, then they have a right to voice their view.
I shouldn't have to change the way I speak just because someone doesn't like it, if they don't they don't have to listen. I refuse to edit or water down my personality because some little persons sensitive sensibilities.
And that what it comes down to, you are asking people to edit themselves, to be less than who they are and that is unacceptable. I would never seriously come up to you and say "I believe that Lolis are inappropriate and I think you should act like a normal adult because I don't like it."
That is what you're asking us to do and I refuse, if you cant deal with it don't listen or leave, no-one is forcing you to listen to something you don't like.

Star, that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm objecting and voicing my objection but I'm striking nothing down just yet, but I gladly will if it goes to far. I am me, and like everyone else here I come to places like this so I can be me free of judgement and I refuse to give that up. I will fight for it.

[Angel]

I think that is unrelated.. There is a difference between using a word that means the same thing but is just less crude... there is a difference between a sexual innuendo and a full sexual talk about cramming things and such. There is a difference between me being who I am as a person and you using a word.

I think your taking what we are asking and making it to the extreme. I have seen plenty of people be hardcore and bitter and angry and still manage to respect the fact that we are trying to have a cleaner site. A good amount of forum sites are like that.. you wouldn't just walk into a site that already had clean-site rules and just tell them to change it. I feel like people are mostly just making a big deal about it because of the level of lax modding that has allowed this up till now.

I mean, I am totally against censorship in books and DVD's and such because.. it's a material, a freedom of speech that the person has to literally go and find and pick up and then be exposed to it. It's passive. But some people come here to have a fun time and not be made fun of, picked on, or otherwise be around some really uncomfortable subjects.

Edit: I would like if we keep the site the way it is, we put on the banner that we are a Mature rated site and that members younger that 17 enter at their own risk, that discretion is advised.

[Nynx]

Feb 12, 2010 3:03:36 GMT -5 Angel said:

I think that is unrelated.. There is a difference between using a word that means the same thing but is just less crude... there is a difference between a sexual innuendo and a full sexual talk about cramming things and such. There is a difference between me being who I am as a person and you using a word.

I think your taking what we are asking and making it to the extreme. I have seen plenty of people be hardcore and bitter and angry and still manage to respect the fact that we are trying to have a cleaner site. A good amount of forum sites are like that.. you wouldn't just walk into a site that already had clean-site rules and just tell them to change it. I feel like people are mostly just making a big deal about it because of the level of lax modding that has allowed this up till now.

Ok first off... we aren't like every other site which sorta pisses me off about you in so many ways. You are always trying to change the site into something like the other sites you have seen or been too. That by itself is saying that you would rather the site lose its individuality then allow it to be something unique and different. I really want you to stop comparing this site to everything else. We are different. Our people are different, our staff is different, our RP is different and the way we communicate is different. Is it bad? No.. we are just unique in our own way. As for sexual talk? Angel you just said that you want to abolish M-rated talk from the site. You just stated that you want to get rid of it, so why are you talking about differences between sexual innuendo and sexual talk when you don't want either of them? Just because you want to remain a child and leave these factors out of your life doesn't mean that we have to water things down for you. We have adults on this site that can handle these types of things and its the children here that needs to get some more fortitude. I agree that some things can be toned down but abolishing it is unacceptable.

[Angel]

It's less that I'm trying to change the site to another site that I feel like I want to make this site a more fun place to be and feel these rules would help that. It's just how I feel it should be moderated. The "other site" reference was just me mentioning how people don't have a problem with clean sites unless the site wasn't always clean.

If the majority of people want it mature, that's fine.. but I feel like there are more people than just me that would like it cleaner.

I just want what I want in the end.. I'm sorry for being selfish and all. That's somewhat why I dropped from the staff.. one of the like 10 reasons anyway. I don't want to force my opinions on a site that doesn't want them but in the end, I do have them..

[Nynx]

No screw this majority shit... Thats the problem we have with this site to begin with. No one can accept the other person's views!!! So we have to rally ourselves together into huge factions and vote on bullshit like this. This is nonsense. We shouldn't have to fight like this every time. If this site has a bad image, its because of all the damn fighting. All of us need to deal with the other person's views and accept it. Doing votes and crap like that only separates us and causes people to part ways. This site has survived so far because no matter what happens we still come back together. We have many different people and personalities here and thats what makes this site great. Why do we need to have a vote and make one side's opinions more dominant than the other? Tell me why? I agree that some things need to be toned down so it won't chase away the kids but we shouldn't have to make every issue into a debate or vote. Its called balance people, learn what it means. Of course some of us will need to tone things down a little bit but all of us must do it. Sexual people need to give the kids space and the kids must give them room to operate as well. Voting and making the site change based on majority is what will cause the site to lose members and/or activity. This fighting and debating needs to stop somewhere. The sexual talk on the box is dominant atm, so i believe a few things could be toned down but I will not tolerate abolishment because the children can't seem to accept it. Accept each other and work things out.

[The Master]

It all comes down to the fact that this whole thing has gone too far already. We will not change our personalities and quirks just because a few people want to be 'kid friendly'.
I for one am damn tired of stating my opinion on an issue then being called a flamer because another didn't like the way I said it or didn't like my view altogether.
The fact is that the real world isn't a 'kid friendly' place. 90% of the sex talk on the c-box happens between 10 pm and 2am, no kid should even be on the Internet at that time and if they are we are very low on the list of 'bad' things they're looking at. It is the responsibility of the parents to monitor what a child sees, not ours.
No where on this site does it say kid friendly or child oriented, period. We are not other kiddie Nintendo sites, we are what we are and I refuse to compromise that because a few people can handle the grown up world.
I am also sick and DAMN tired of Surgepox (and others) bringing this up everywhere, I feel and I know I'm not the only one, that he is trying to force his views on how things should be on me. He IS NOT a Mod, He IS NOT staff and I think if he cant handle a grown up setting he should just leave. No more of this organising against what you think is wrong, enough is enough. Having your opinion is fine and voicing it is fine but at this point you re beginning to infringe on other peoples rights to do so.
Stop trying to rally people to your cause and deal with the fact that more mature people will have more mature conversations, if you don't like it you can either not listen or LEAVE, simple as that.

[Angel]

Now not only are you attacking Surgepox personally which I feel is just wrong because he has every right to his opinion on how the site should be just as much as you do and I want to hear both people be able to take freely. Also, I feel like your attacking a simple and just cause of bringing people in a union who believe in the same cause without us actually doing anything to try to enforce rules on the site or anything. We simply have said that we want to bring everyone together and stand out and actively just change the way we talk and we interact and promote that way and hope the site comes along. How come we are being treated like we've done anything but express our opinions? This group is not trying to be an army, it's just in my opinion a support group of sorts, a group trying to bring people who believe in something together and have us all in a good cause together. Anyway, despite my own words most of the people where believe that it should simply be toned down. I am not the voice of N.U.T's.. I am the voice of Angel.

I'm tired of having this opinion, or anyone having an opinion and they becoming personally attacked for it. The crude talk, trolling and immaturity seems to be to be on the c-box all day long. I'm confused why people think it just happens at 10pm-2am or whatever, it just tends to get more hardcore at this time because they have a rule that as far as I remember was actually supposed to be taken down defending those actions. I never said this was to monitor children, nor did I bring up children or younger members at this time or said that this was to make it safe for children or otherwise related to that.. yet that's all you said. I'm saying that some, indeed a good amount of our older and current members don't like it that way either. I feel like we are treated unfairly and like monsters or evil people trying to oppress just for having on opinion about the way conversations just in the way you say your treated like a flamer for having an opinion. We are this site too.

Which brings me to the next point, why are some people on the site ignore when we talk about the site being this way, or this being what the site wants. What about all the people here that want the site cleaner? Then aren't we, apart of this site.. a site where there are people that want's cleaner conversations? Why are we being completely ignored and told to even leave because we are who we are. We aren't asking you to do that.. I feel like if someone did that to you, you would feel like something very unjust was said and I would agree. No one should have to leave just because they feel a certain way.

Also Star, and this is just me expressing how I feel about your views. You can go around and claim that everything needs to be neutral, and that's well and good and personally I do love the sentiment. I would love to find a way that everyone can be happy and I truly hope there is a way in this situation. But sometimes if that isn't apparent right way, then when you sit around trying to find it, nothing can or ever get done and in the end no one ends up happy because of it. Do you see in real life decisions ending up in neutral outcomes? Not very often sadly. The Pro-Life people have to deal with the fact that abortions still go on. Gay people still have to deal with the fact that marriage is out of their reach. People who want out troops back still have to deal with the fact that we are in a war. With some decisions, especially the first and last one.. there is no middle ground either. Sometimes what the other person want's directly calls for the other side to not get what they want.

And even if someone could find a way to make up a middle ground, sometimes the middle ground just ends up hypocritical and near unintelligent. I hope that it isn't in this case..

I want to mention that after this post I won't be posting on this in a debate/argumentative way for quite sometime so someone else has a chance to argue and so I don't feel like I'm being overly pushy.

I would again, though like to call for a mature rating warning on the banner of the site like all mature rated (especially Proboards) sites have if that's the way we will remain. Just because I believe it's the right thing to do.. not because other sites do it and I'm an other site zombie.

[SLE]

I love how we're arguing about a set of guidelines one member posted to try and see if he can get more than 5 people supporting it. It's not a set of rules, it's not anything like that at all, really.
It's pretty much saying "Hey guys, I want a better site for kids, here's a list of how, who wants to help in the cause?"

[Angel]

Feb 12, 2010 8:39:03 GMT -5 SLE said:

I love how we're arguing about a set of guidelines one member posted to try and see if he can get more than 5 people supporting it. It's not a set of rules, it's not anything like that at all, really.
It's pretty much saying "Hey guys, I want a better site for kids, here's a list of how, who wants to help in the cause?"

Which I agreed with and said in the first paragraph of my tl;dr last post.

[Nynx]

Lets end this debate now.... Because nothing anyone will say to you will register Angel. Simply put you are too stubborn to listen to anyone so I'm washing my hands with you. All you re seeing is one side because thats the side you believe in. You don't give a damn about the opposing side and you expect them to this change themselves because thats what you believe is right. In my opinion you are the one that is in the wrong. Also the reason why the world is so CENSOREDed up is because no one knows how to accept each other views. This is why we had so many wars, debates and conflicts. Just because real life likes to beat itself up doesn't mean we have to follow the same road. Wars, abortion, Gay marriage? The difference why those are such hot topics is because the government is the only ones that have the power to allow such things and they don't give a damn about what other people think. They are set in their old ignorant ways, a mindset that has been past down through generations. Seriously they sit on their rich asses all day and make decisions to raise their self image.

This is not the same case. We have Staff that care about the members and work with them to make a better future,thus some kind of middle ground is achieved. I don't like your opinion because they are selfish Angel. All you want is what you want, and that is one side's opinions wiped from the site. I will not accept an outcome like that. Also I've been hearing a small rumor that this group was indirectly created by your hand which is why I'm a little fiery right now. I will strive to make everyone satisfied, not happy but comfortable. I will strive to find something that will as close to a middle ground as possible, even if you believe its so unrealistic. This site doesn't need to be a constant war of factions and Angel, thats what your views are making it into.

Edit: Also SLE This is how all things start. A small group or ideal grows and drowns out anything else that has different views. Just because this is not a rule doesn't mean it will not have an effect on people Surgepox already proved that yesterday when everyone was having a decent, friendly debate and one person made Surge think the whole debate was a flamefest. This is only going to become more of a nuisance. Opinions are opinions but they shouldn't be pushed on other people and I believe thats what Surge is trying to do. Rally up people with his ideals, drive everyone thats different out and make the site into what he wants. Classic isn't it? People like me and Atrum already sees this becoming a problem, thats why we are so defensive.

[Ghost]

wait wut?