Ejak
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Post by Ejak on Jul 20, 2009 14:06:37 GMT -5
I was wonder whats the point of faith.
Religion has got to be the single most important thing in history its caused wars, genocide, millions of people have in their god's name. Fanatics have brought nations together in holy causes to exterminate the infidel... but its a beautiful thing people have magnificent structures and artworks built in monument to thier faith like the pyramids in Egypt & S. America, Mosques, and so much more. Religion had united peoples and torn them apart. it guides and duludes people. theres such a large variety of religions and people
Throughout the history of man we have tried to explain the unexplained put purpose in our lifes and guide us. We shape our beliefs based on whats taught by our parents. If there are sepreme forces that shape our world what are they? How were we created and who did it, what did it? Are we just specs floating in a vast void of emptyness floating through space? Why is there such a variety of religion in our world?
I am athiest but i find religion fascenating and tried to make this as unbiased as possible.
Why do we have faith???
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Tony Redgrave
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Post by Tony Redgrave on Jul 20, 2009 14:11:06 GMT -5
Religion unites people and in cases like Christianity, it gives people hope that the good will be rewarded and the wicked will be punished. That and its rather depressing to think if you die, your destined to an eternity of darkness =O
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Ejak
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Post by Ejak on Jul 20, 2009 19:14:16 GMT -5
Religion unites people and in cases like Christianity, it gives people hope that the good will be rewarded and the wicked will be punished. That and its rather depressing to think if you die, your destined to an eternity of darkness =O in christianity if this is correct that means that the vast majority of all people throughout history would be condemned to hell and ond only a select few people would find salvation. how is this fair? |
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Tony Redgrave
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Post by Tony Redgrave on Jul 20, 2009 19:26:17 GMT -5
when people choose a religion, its saying that this is the only thing that is correct. Thus it makes sense that those that don't believe pay the price. God loves all and those that are condemned to hell are there because they refused to see his existence even if others have tried to show them the light . That is how a Christian would explain that view me thinks.
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kunekune
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Post by kunekune on Jul 20, 2009 19:49:10 GMT -5
I personally have had a pathetic life of faith according to other theists around me. I hate attending church, Christians annoy me with their religious jargon and obstinate (and otherwise incessant) attitude towards the "ungodly." Sadly though, I still believe in a higher power and feel that the God of the Jews is most likely the one to exist (my personal opinion with not much backing, just stating).
What I can give you is a major reason why I think faith is necessary at times. It's formally called Pascal's Wager and states that since the existence of God cannot be determined through reason, then one should wager as though God exists, because living so has everything to gain and nothing to lose. Although this reasoning is highly debatable since there is no concrete evidence that God is real and the only one present, I still feel that the logic is somewhat correct.
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Post by ness11 on Jul 23, 2009 17:16:21 GMT -5
While myself being agnostic, it's impossible at this point in time to determine if either of the religons are correct or incorrect, I don't find it a nescisity to have a religon. Yet people to belive in Christiantiy, Islam, or whoever for a lot of reasons.
God, or Gods, give people something to build towards and aim to become. Now I'm not saying that they aim to become a god themselves, but to try to be the best they can or could ever be. Religon gives people hope and guidelines to follow, when all else fails they look to religon to aid them in their lives and make the best desicions they can and make the most of their lives. It is their motivation, it's their pride, and it leads to 80% of our wars.
While it hasn't be proven at how effective it is believeing in a religon or god, there's certaintly a good bit of evidence that it deos lead to warfare. I'd rather spare the petty details to a good bit of our wars, but the perfect example is World War II. The Nazi leader blamed the Germany's defeat in World War I because of the Jews, years later the Nazi government ruled Germany and the Holocaust was in full swing. This belief that there is a superior belief is a major issue in soceity, and often in regions specifically located in the Middle East, determines your life expectancy.
This often leads some to just want to drop religon all entirely and become Athiests; people who have no religon and believe that there is no god(s). Unfortunatly, this often sparks debate and even creates more problems because of some hard-headed worshipers of say, Christinaity, often mock and condem them for not beleieving in their religon even though no religon is greater than the other.
Religon can be one of the most uplifting and terrorizing ideas in the world. While you can't see religon itself, it can drive people to do extrodinary things.
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Post by Ghost on Jul 23, 2009 23:39:46 GMT -5
In response to LGN's statements about war ETC.
So many time religion is seen in a bad light by the media and the world really. It is used as a scapegoat to cover up the fact that some people are just flat stupid. Yes you have your over-zealous groups here and there that take things to the extreme but in the end MOST religions are very simple, basic, and harmless.
Religion becomes a danger when people do not understand it, or only follow a portion. You have to understand it and understand it as a whole. Let me give you an example... Islam. Right now i'm sure if you went out to a random person on the street and asked them what the average Muslim individual would be they would probably say they are all psychotic terrorists. Which is utterly false. For world literature in college i had to do a comparison between two books of similar area but written from two different countries.... i chose the bible vs the koran. Honestly, although the fact that i read it in english was blasphemy anyway LOL.... 99% of the koran is simple common sense guidelines, promoting peace and prosperity...calling anyone who names themselves as Christian as friends to whom they should not quarrel. But it's those people who ONLY focus on the ideology of Jihad and dying during it that stuff into war....noone can blame a religion as starting war....that's absolutely rediculous! It's the people who participate in the religion just enough to gain it's title but are only interested in a portion of it that do the damage. Blame the people... not the religious beliefs!
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Sharpay
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Post by Sharpay on Jul 24, 2009 0:25:36 GMT -5
I think religion keeps life interesting and to keep us moving foward. I am not a religious person, but my mom was critically ill (possibly death) more than 6 months ago and I was not suppossed to see my bio parents for at least 6 months, but my mom, family, and friends prayed and she came home 4 days before Christmas.
In the scientific world that is impossible. But it makes you think if there really is a God. Even I think there might be a God. I think people have faith so that they have something to guide them and move them foward.
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ManOfSteele
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Post by ManOfSteele on Jul 24, 2009 9:22:25 GMT -5
I have three words for you. Faith No More BB, don't post in this board unless you have something to actually contribute to the discussion. Same goes for you Lloyd. |
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kunekune
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Post by kunekune on Jul 24, 2009 13:37:46 GMT -5
One thing that always confuses me is that some of us are told since childbirth that God or certain gods exist, and some of us don't question the reasoning and take it as fact. Some of never "feel" God touch our lives like others claim and we are never elated during church services when supposedly God is "among us." Our parents were told that God exists and their parents before them, and so on until the beginning, so it's hard to try and speak to people about things which they've believed all their lives...at least that's my problem. If I ever tried to tell my parents that I've never experienced the crap they've felt then they'd enroll me in counseling and call for an exorcism...T_T
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Post by lloydexphere on Jul 24, 2009 14:38:57 GMT -5
All the things stated in the bible has come true.
God will forgive, but it's up to you to believe.
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kunekune
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Post by kunekune on Jul 24, 2009 18:57:52 GMT -5
All the things stated in the bible has come true. God will forgive, but it's up to you to believe. But see how come the scientific studies of the universe date back millions of years? I mean, carbon-dating is pretty reliable and some of the stuff on earth has been around for eons. However some people who take the stuff in the Bible as fact believe the world is somewhere between 5,000 to 10,000 years old. Who is correct? I just have a hard time grasping some of the stuff in the Bible as concrete truth when it's possible for things of this nature to happen all over the world. If you are referring to incidents stated in Revelations that detail the end of time then I find it difficult for the events there to be talking about a single moment in time. I mean, several of the things have happened all throughout history and worse times have passed so why isn't God here? This may have been off topic, like the quoted post, but I felt it a necessary side discussion... |
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Post by Ghost on Jul 24, 2009 22:54:24 GMT -5
One thing that always confuses me is that some of us are told since childbirth that God or certain gods exist, and some of us don't question the reasoning and take it as fact. Some of never "feel" God touch our lives like others claim and we are never elated during church services when supposedly God is "among us." Our parents were told that God exists and their parents before them, and so on until the beginning, so it's hard to try and speak to people about things which they've believed all their lives...at least that's my problem. If I ever tried to tell my parents that I've never experienced the crap they've felt then they'd enroll me in counseling and call for an exorcism...T_T I'm not sure about other religions so much because i only participate/believe in Christianity. Yes... i "felt" God at one point. i was 6 years old. It's hard to describe but i know i wasn't paying ANY attention the the message my teacher was telling... i was daydreaming about the Ninja Turtles... then out of a blue...without anything leading up to it...my mind was filled with "Hey... i should talk to the teacher about God...i don't think i'm an actual believer" the thought filled my mind and heart....but as quickly as it came it passed away. I chose to act on that sudden weirdness and the rest is history. If you have felt anything like that then i believe that would be considered a calling. If you have not....the MAJORITY believe that it isn't the right time for you. I "felt the call" at age 6... but my grandfather was on his death bed before believing. So that's basically the whole point.... if you felt that and chose not to act on it, or if you have yet to feel that sudden urge...then OF COURSE you wouldn't feel "the presence" when others do. It's written that you can only be in touch with his presence once you become a saved believer. It is my personal belief that each person gets this urge at least ONCE during their lifetime. Certain passages make me believe that the "call" only is required to be felt by each person ONCE and only ONCE. Usually from what i hear of my fellow believers they feel it several times. Now some may say you haven't felt anything because you are a terrible person etc etc but they are just full of garbage and don't read/pay attention. It just simply means either you didn't understand the urge, or it's just not your time yet. Again... just all my personal beliefs But see how come the scientific studies of the universe date back millions of years? I mean, carbon-dating is pretty reliable and some of the stuff on earth has been around for eons. However some people who take the stuff in the Bible as fact believe the world is somewhere between 5,000 to 10,000 years old. Who is correct? I just have a hard time grasping some of the stuff in the Bible as concrete truth when it's possible for things of this nature to happen all over the world. If you are referring to incidents stated in Revelations that detail the end of time then I find it difficult for the events there to be talking about a single moment in time. I mean, several of the things have happened all throughout history and worse times have passed so why isn't God here? This may have been off topic, like the quoted post, but I felt it a necessary side discussion... Actually carbon dating has been known to be false they just cover that up. I have seen the reports thanks to this one guy who's whole mission in life is to teach against evolution... he has some VERY sound documents and findings but several times carbon dating has been incorrect...don't know the exact cases but the origin of something was KNOWN they did carbon dating and it registered as 15,000 years old Actually the events of Revelation are NOT a single point in time. This is something alot of people don't realize. Chapter 3 or 4 and on till the end are all about the future. Chapters 1 and 2 are about the past/present . There is a passage in the 2nd chapter where it talks about different churches. Multiple bible scholars believe this to not be physical churches... they are representative of church ages. Like the first church mentioned is representative of the early churches that Jesus' 11 apostles started (Judas didn't start crap cause he was hanging from a tree LOL) etc etc etc.. all of the churches exhibited traits of their time period and all Relevlations scholars believe that 6 of the 7 churches have already passed and we are living in the time of the Last Church. |
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Post by ness11 on Jul 25, 2009 16:39:59 GMT -5
In response to LGN's statements about war ETC. So many time religion is seen in a bad light by the media and the world really. It is used as a scapegoat to cover up the fact that some people are just flat stupid. Yes you have your over-zealous groups here and there that take things to the extreme but in the end MOST religions are very simple, basic, and harmless. Religion becomes a danger when people do not understand it, or only follow a portion. You have to understand it and understand it as a whole. Let me give you an example... Islam. Right now i'm sure if you went out to a random person on the street and asked them what the average Muslim individual would be they would probably say they are all psychotic terrorists. Which is utterly false. For world literature in college i had to do a comparison between two books of similar area but written from two different countries.... i chose the bible vs the koran. Honestly, although the fact that i read it in english was blasphemy anyway LOL.... 99% of the koran is simple common sense guidelines, promoting peace and prosperity...calling anyone who names themselves as Christian as friends to whom they should not quarrel. But it's those people who ONLY focus on the ideology of Jihad and dying during it that stuff into war....noone can blame a religion as starting war....that's absolutely rediculous! It's the people who participate in the religion just enough to gain it's title but are only interested in a portion of it that do the damage. Blame the people... not the religious beliefs! I understand that, and hey I have nothing against religon as long as you follow these guidelines. 1. Don't try to convert me or anyone that doesn't appreciate it. 2. Don't harm myself or anyone else physically or mentally. 3. Don't petition the president to have a whole, official "Christian Pride Month!" Sorry but I already laugh at the fact that we have a Gay Pride Month and a Black History Month, but not a Native American or Asian American History Month.  This conversation of how old the Earth is and what not, this then brings up Evolution VS Creationism.I heard about it this year in science when my teacher said "Evolution is a controversial subject because a lot of people (but not scientists) denounce it all entirely." Just in case you don't know, the theory of evolution is that organims over long periods of times (I'm talking a lot of years here, hundreds, thousands, millions) advance and mature to be better suited for their enviornment. Evolution has been backed up by scientists, and was first hypothesized by Charles Darwin, which I hope you know who he is. Creationism is the theory that God built everything in approximitely six days. It's majorly based off the Bible teaching, and that the world was built around 5,000 to 10,000 years like Kune said. There has never been proof that creationism exsists. Of these two, which seems more correct? |
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kunekune
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Post by kunekune on Jul 25, 2009 16:41:30 GMT -5
Well if God supposedly cares for each of us he wouldn't stop after one try and give up. When I was younger I "felt" the need to accept his gift but in the end I didn't really feel anything, I just did what I thought was appropriate at the time given my age. Of course, people freaked out and took pictures, my parents recorded all my church activities and all was happy, but I've never actually felt the presence. I don't want to trample over others beliefs but I just can't be a part of something that is full of so much hypocrisy and self-aggrandizement. I see it all the time in church; people lifting their hands and then bragging later about their spirituality, my brother gets baptized and my parents record and show him off like a trophy, Christians bash homosexuals although I don't recall anywhere in the bible that states we should wave a Bible in their face and tell them their going to hell and that God doesn't love them and make them feel absolutely miserable, then turn around and say "Judging others is not our business, it is that of God," etc. etc.
Let me detail one scenario that baffles me: a girl in a far off country has grown up believing in the indigenous gods of her people and never comes into contact with Christians because their country is too remote. She faithfully follows the teachings of her church and dies still believing in the gods she was raised to worship. Does she go to hell even though it was impossible for the Christians to visit her country and "save" her? Is she punished because she faithfully served gods other than God although there was no contact with anyone outside of her world? If God exists, why would he stand for this? It just makes no sense to me. She's condemned to hell because she worshiped the wrong god even though the Christians couldn't help.
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