Bioware disses JRPGS

[¡Yiff Police!]

www.destructoid.com/bioware-co-founder-jrpgs-suffer-from-lack-of-evolution--155782.phtml

*Before anything discuss gets started; yes, I know this is a little old but no one posted it here *

The jest of the interview is that Bioware believes that J-RPGs have not been revolutionary, as of late, and have become quite stagnant. I won't post my thoughts on the subject just yet but Bioware did present an interesting: What makes a RPG a RPG?

[Tony Redgrave]

Well, I agree =O

Elements such as "THE MAIN MUST HAVE A SWORD TO USE IN COMBAT NO MATTER THE TIME PERIOD" do make me shudder but not in a sexy way. Kinda like the shakes you would see during a massive seizure.

~Also~

What makes an RPG an RPG to me is the fact that you are put in the role of the character and you follow through with that role while sticking to a sort of "system" You can have a "party" of people or even just be one person like in Vagrant Story.

There must be puzzles and tactical combat =O There must be some sort of "levels and experience" and the idea that you can sorta customize your characters (a staple in todays arpees)

However, the line between rpg and other genres is getting harder and harder to see these days

[kunekune]

Well, in my opinion Bioware hasn't been putting new ideas on the table since KOTOR.

[The Legendary Simple Starfish]

I'll ignore the fact that the Final Fantasy is the biggest oxymoron in gaming (only 1/3 of you will get that joke), I agree with Bioware to a degree.

Because everyone now adays loves coining the term RPG there are a lot of imposters that try to pretend their RPGs. In every game you play a "role" obviously, but when you compare JRPGs to WRPGs, the two differ. JRPGs are based on set storylines and characters, and while that's not nessacarily a bad thing, you as the gamer don't have any real influence on how the story goes. This usually trenscends into you being the goody-to-shoe teenager with a spikey hairdo fighting alongside a teenage girl who doesn't wear pants as you save the world from flat, predictable villians. WRPGs give the player more choice, like in games Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Although you're goal remains the same (kill this guy, save whoever) how you go about it is entirely up to you.

I'll admit that I'm biased towards WRPGs (if you couldn't figure that out already) but I do find them a more original and not just recycling the same name and brand over and over again. Sorry Square Enix, But if you handed me Last Remnant and Final Fantasy I really wouldn't be abe to tell the difference. I don't see how Square Enix could even manage to produce about twenty titles from the same series without totally blowing their brains off. I honestly can't believe that every single Final Fantasy game was original, because it's simply not possible. "You're the good guy, you have spikey hair, the bad guy does something bad like jawalking, you have to stop them to save the world for the trillionth time." At least Final Fantasy created the cliches they so happily milk.

Take a senario in Mass Effect (WARNING: SPOILERS). In the midst of a firefight at the Citadel (think of it as the capital of space) you're human buddies rocket out of hyperspace ready to kick butt and take names. You however are given the option to protect a certain ship carrying the Council, the governing body of the galaxy. The Council had been giving you a bloody hard time throughout the game; should you really save them? You're given the choice to either save them or let them die. In a similar situation ina JRPG however, you'd probably be given one option, not both. In fact, they probably wouldn't even bother to ask what your opinion was.

In short, are WRPGs more innovative than JRPGs? Yes, because JRPGs simply are recycling the same ideas over and over again *tries not to make a refernace to Nintendo*. Does that mean they both can't be just as fun? No. JRPGs can still be fun even though your influence is limited to nothing, and in the case of a JRPG, that's a good thing. Their aren't many games I consider RPGs though, JRPGs aren't one of them. Nice try Peter Molyneux, Fable isn't an rpg either.

Yahtzee sums up a lot of my views here as well
www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/7038-Extra-Punctuation-Role-Playing-Games

[Devaux]

I'll just sit here smugly enjoying the Mother series. Don't mind me.

[Rorschach]

personally, I think mass effect changed RPG's in a way. They didn't really add anything revolutionary but they did polish everything and added a lot of growth in your character, making it so that your adventure is different from another. Mass Effect 2 even allowed you to use an old save file to continue the story. LGN's story may involve him being an enemy with a hero while mine may involve me and that hero being best friends. It makes your story that much more personal and unique. JRPG's havent really done anything, well in North america at least. Nothing revolutionary in the past year IMO. The last awesome thing I saw was the battle system for Final Fantasy 12 and hell, that was a long time ago. Maybe is cuz I dont play enough JRPG's but I personally think bioware is doing a better job than most RPG developers right now.

[Aphelion]

I haven't been able to find any JRPGS, due to the fact that I own a wii, and until recently have been able to play one new rpg, that being Dragon Age...

Otherwise I feel it is difficult to judge the progress of JRPGS in general since they have the tendency to keep very similar elements. In otherwords one JRPG or just RPG in general will tweak a certain area, however maintain a rather basic formula. The changes build up with each one (with the exception of FF), almost like evolution. It has periods of gradualism and punctuated equilibrium...

Besides I don't see why Bioware should be pointing fingers here... I mean Dragon Age's characters and the overall game play felt like KOTOR 2, just in a fantasy setting...

I swear Alistair is pretty much Atton (Aka Carth mk. II), which makes Allister, I guess, Carth mk.III

[Angel]

JRPG's rule and WRPG's/RPS's drool.

That is all.

[Rorschach]

JRPG's haven't done anything very new. The fact that my friends and I have a stereotype for a typical JRPG story is pretty sad, even more sad that its pretty accurate. Every JRPG has a similar story, similar gameplay and nothing truly revolutionary or interesting to keep people playing. Angel have you even played a western RPG like mass effect or dragon age origins? The line "if it aint broke, don't fix it" does apply when it comes to JRPG's but they are getting so stale, I really dont see the need to play a JRPG anymore before being annoyed from how similar it felt or how similar the story is. The last unique JRPG I saw was valkyria chronicles.

Edit: that and demon souls but idk if you would consider demon souls to be a JRPG

[Angel]

Feb 16, 2010 23:40:09 GMT -5 Angel said:

JRPG's rule and WRPG's/RPS's drool.

That is all.

Because this message is too important, so it deserves repetition for clarity.

Oh, and umm.. btw, stay out of my genre. We don't have to change to appease you, the true fans shouldn't be ditched for the mainstream. Kthxbai.

[Rorschach]

.......what?

[Angel]

Feb 17, 2010 16:07:28 GMT -5 Rorschach said:

.......what?

Basically what I'm saying is.. I don't go to First Person Shooters and go, "I wanna play you gaiz, change so I can okay? Change what everyone who loves you loves about you so I can enjoy you." alot of people like JRPG's the way they are and we shouldn't have to change that so people who don't like them can play.

If you don't like them, then don't play them. Stick to your RPS games or whatever.

[SLE]

I wonder how a game wouldn't be a JRPG if it came out in Japan about 6 months before america.
Also, Pokemon characters enslave animals to fight for them, and they always wear hats. Just sayin.

[Rorschach]

Feb 17, 2010 16:44:23 GMT -5 Angel said:

Feb 17, 2010 16:07:28 GMT -5 Rorschach said:

.......what?

Basically what I'm saying is.. I don't go to First Person Shooters and go, "I wanna play you gaiz, change so I can okay? Change what everyone who loves you loves about you so I can enjoy you." alot of people like JRPG's the way they are and we shouldn't have to change that so people who don't like them can play.

If you don't like them, then don't play them. Stick to your RPS games or whatever.

ok first of all, I didn't say I don't like JRPGs so shut the hell up about that. I dont see why your getting so defensive about this when all I did was post a couple of opinionated statements. JRPG's are fun, I have always been a fan of the dragon quest franchise, the final fantasy franchise and the some of the tales franchise(vesperia, abyss), and im trying to be open minded about this entire thread. Second of all, its called FPS. third of all, there are some FPS games that did change everything I know and love compared to CoD. Its called BIOSHOCK and BORDERLANDS! but you wouldn't know considering you probably haven't played either of these games. Borderlands is more RPG then it is shooter IMO because you have so many stats to upgrade, so much leveling to do and so many different weapons and stuff to customize your character with.

Overall, all I said was that JRPG's are pretty unorigional and I even said that "if it aint broke, dont fix it" is true when it comes to JRPG's but all I said in the beginning was that JRPG's are getting stale. I even tried to be mature when talking about this but then you came and started spewing bullshit about how "If you don't like JRPG's, don't play them" when I never said that. If I wanted to purposely attack JRPG's, I wouldve said "OMG JRPGS ARE STUPID AND SUCK TROLL TROLL FLAME FLAME FPS WOOT WOOT WOOT!" or something similar but I didn't, because I enjoy playing JRPG's.

[¡Yiff Police!]

Oh my I'm late to the party!

'll ignore the fact that the Final Fantasy is the biggest oxymoron in gaming (only 1/3 of you will get that joke), I agree with Bioware to a degree.

I see what you did there.

Because everyone now adays loves coining the term RPG there are a lot of imposters that try to pretend their RPGs. In every game you play a "role" obviously, but when you compare JRPGs to WRPGs, the two differ. JRPGs are based on set storylines and characters, and while that's not nessacarily a bad thing, you as the gamer don't have any real influence on how the story goes. This usually trenscends into you being the goody-to-shoe teenager with a spikey hairdo fighting alongside a teenage girl who doesn't wear pants as you save the world from flat, predictable villians. WRPGs give the player more choice, like in games Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Although you're goal remains the same (kill this guy, save whoever) how you go about it is entirely up to you.

I agree with to a certain extent. Its true that both J-RPGS and W-RPGS both offer different experiences, I don't think that's an accurate portrayal of the sub-genre. Your right in saying that J-RPGs have been stale as of late but don't act like W-RPGs are superior because they just recently have been becoming popular. J-RPGs have deep stories and deep battle mechanics and W-RPGs just over more control, or rather involvement, with the story and overall atmosphere. I haven't played much W-RPGs (and its clear that you haven't played many J-RPGs) so my opinion loses some merit.

I'll admit that I'm biased towards WRPGs (if you couldn't figure that out already) but I do find them a more original and not just recycling the same name and brand over and over again. Sorry Square Enix, But if you handed me Last Remnant and Final Fantasy I really wouldn't be abe to tell the difference. I don't see how Square Enix could even manage to produce about twenty titles from the same series without totally blowing their brains off. I honestly can't believe that every single Final Fantasy game was original, because it's simply not possible. "You're the good guy, you have spikey hair, the bad guy does something bad like jawalking, you have to stop them to save the world for the trillionth time." At least Final Fantasy created the cliches they so happily milk.

I really dislike the whole Square comment because out of all the J-RPG companies out there, at least they try to be different with each new entry. I admit Square does have its flaws and I want them to give FF 7 a damn rest!

Take a senario in Mass Effect (WARNING: SPOILERS). In the midst of a firefight at the Citadel (think of it as the capital of space) you're human buddies rocket out of hyperspace ready to kick butt and take names. You however are given the option to protect a certain ship carrying the Council, the governing body of the galaxy. The Council had been giving you a bloody hard time throughout the game; should you really save them? You're given the choice to either save them or let them die. In a similar situation ina JRPG however, you'd probably be given one option, not both. In fact, they probably wouldn't even bother to ask what your opinion was.

I looked over this statement a few times and had me thinking a few things...For starters, you stated a scenario from a series that came out recently and said how J-RPGs aren't being progressive, yet can you name a scenario like that from the last generation? Maybe, but I want to point you to the Shin Megami Series by ATLUS. Their games are very deep and dynamic and give the players ability the alter the out-comes of the story. I really hope they release a new entry for the 360 or PS3.

In short, are WRPGs more innovative than JRPGs? Yes, because JRPGs simply are recycling the same ideas over and over again *tries not to make a refernace to Nintendo*. Does that mean they both can't be just as fun? No. JRPGs can still be fun even though your influence is limited to nothing, and in the case of a JRPG, that's a good thing. Their aren't many games I consider RPGs though, JRPGs aren't one of them. Nice try Peter Molyneux, Fable isn't an rpg either.

I agree that Fable isn't really a RPG.

But I'll like to end this post by saying this: just because its linear doesn't make it bad; just because it has dialog trees doesn't make it good.

Oh yeah, I wanna try out Mass Effect to see what's so good about this series.